Thank you everyone for the incredible feedback and for taking part in the voting on the hand colour. It was very interesting to see the conversation that arose. Our intent was not to concern anyone, but it appears that this naturally happened for some and by reading on I think we might have found a solution to address most concerns. We have a very passionate community with a lot of love for this project and naturally changing a colour can create some debate therefore we have to do what is right in the end.
A few hands missing and definitely in need of some colour 🧐
Aside from the vote it was great to hear everyones comments on luminous and how much you value having it integrated into the design of the watch.
The results of the vote for the hand colour has been very polarizing. On one side there is a very positive argument for keeping the orange colour as it's what was presented in the original design and looks very good overall. On the other side there are those that like the red and see it as potentially creating a bit more continuity between the power reserve indicator and the red rubber strap on offer or simply because they like red. Both are very valid and we must honour both because after all this is your watch.
English Forum Vote - Click the image to view the current vote
Chinese Forum Vote - Click the image to view the current vote
What about luminous?
There is still one thing hanging over this topic of hands and that is; luminous. It hasn't been easy to find a solution without modifying hand shape, however the persistent ideas presented by you all are very much validated.
Tzuyu has been keeping a "joker" under wraps that we believe will bring some closure and excitement to you all.
What is this joker?
Through your feedback on luminous we have been working on a solution to add luminous on the seconds hand. "Diver DNA" is how @neuerburg mentioned the importance of luminous in his comment on the "Change of Hands" post.
Check the post out here
Previously this was brought up by a few of you over the course of the pre-order timeline some of whom had pointed out how a lollipop style hand such as that on our Omnium might integrate well. Tzuyu went to work on this with the designers and found that such a design fit perfectly with the 021 C orange, but on the 180 C red it looked far too heavy.
The designers loved the straight 180 C red seconds hand without luminous. We then looked at first presenting the original design of a straight/no luminous seconds hand with the vote for either 021 C orange or the new 180 C red. The result has been so close that obviously it would not be fair to pick one over the other so we have reverted to the joker.
The Orange Joker
*Click images & text to reveal 😉
The joker is an 021 C orange lollipop seconds hand that has a diamond shaped luminous insert that ties into the Horage quadratic DNA found throughout our designs. It provides enough luminous and in orange it is not overbearingly heavy.
Essentially we are slightly modifying the original orange seconds hand shape to have a diamond shaped luminous indicator.
Technical drawing of the Joker
What do you think of the joker?
Of course we want your feedback and would love to see you take part in the poll below on the new 021 C orange lollipop seconds hand versus the original straight 021 C hand with no luminous.
What Seconds Hand Do You Like?
0%021 C Luminous Lollipop
0%021 C Tip Dip
What about 180 C Red?
Based on how we are anticipating the above poll going we have come up with the following solution.
Given that we have opened Pandora's box per se on the hands vote we will offer two options to anyone that has pre-ordered to date. This means you can either have the original straight seconds hand design in 180 C red (no luminous) or you can choose to have the new 021 C orange lollipop seconds hand with luminous insert.
In the third pre-order taking place this August the design team has decided on one hand option and that is the 021 C orange lollipop seconds hand with luminous insert.
How to tell us you want 180 C Red
Simply email us at lostintime@horage.com with you order number and request to have your order ship with 180 C Red and we will change it.
How to tell us you want 021 C Orange Lollipop
If the new orange with lollipop luminous marker is what you want, you don't have to do anything as your watch will ship with this as standard.
Thank you to all of you for being open and transparent in this design process. We always like to try new things and your feedback pushes us to understand the attributes you value most.
As always, let us know your thoughts on the hand choice in the comments!
Till next time...
Landon Stirling
The orange is what originally spoke to me here, and I loved the original aesthetic, which is why I preordered in the first round. However, I do agree that the fully orange second hand is far too much. I would much prefer to have the option of the non-lumed orange original design.
Unlike others, I rather enjoy the orange hands vs the red power reserve, but the full orange hand is maybe not something I can get used to. Please clarify if you are going to continue to make design choices before I have to choose red vs orange, because I don't know what I'll do at this point.
The full orange hand changes the feel of the watch a bit. I think the original design is a bit more classy and the full orange one is more sporty. I love it. It's a sporty 200m divers gmt watch! It took me a while to get used to the idea but now I love it. That's why I didn't want to comment immediately. In the moment your react to the change. And nobody likes change. Full orange hand + platinum rotor I'm all in 100%. Keep doing the good work and keep us updated 🚀
I like the orange Joker hand. I've never owned a Tudor watch and have no plans to buy one, so maybe that affects my thinking. From a brief look at a few Tudor watches with diamond shapes on the hands, they seem to use multiple diamonds in various sizes on different hands. This may be very functional on a serious dive watch but I think it's ugly for a daily driver. I think the Joker will be sporty and will fit in with the theme of the watch quite well. If not, the red alternative is also quite nice.
Really like the orange hand solution, and think you did a great job in the on-line presentation explaining how all this came about. Thank you for your handling of a difficult decision required by the engineering design process. You really ended up in a no win situation, but you handled it far better than any other watch company I can think of would, giving everyone a voice. Thank you and keep up the good work
I appreciate your effort to make everyone happy, but it seems to me that you are loosing your focus.
Sorry to put it so bluntly, but your „Joker“ looks like a Tudor knock-off.
The Supersede deserves better.
Needle shaped seconds hand for me - even without luminous.
I ordered the grey dial and thought the orange would look great, but if the Joker is the only orange option, I may change my dial color. I did not buy it as a diving watch so lume on the second hand is not important for me. I will have to see how the red goes with grey before I decide anything. Wait, I did decide upgrading to the platinum rotor was a must. Keep up the great work and hope y'all have tough skin and your mental health holds up well dealing with trying to make everyone happy.
I agree with the general sentiment that a full orange hand is too much. Just color the tip. I also vote for making it a slender rectangle taking the shape cues of the hour markers. Lastly, I would also hope you minimize the accent colors. Please make the color accents of the power indicator and the hands the same.
wow love the process and updates.
great work again
This looks really cool. And I know what I've said. Heck, I'm even quoted here. and my immediate thought was "thank you, i'll taken it". But.... Looking at yesterdays Youtube (this morning) had some really strong arguments for the needle hand. "How often are you looking in the dark?" And seeing the watch live in the black dial (my order) with the red hands looked so cool.
We love to give nicknames to watches so put a black rubber strap on it and nickname it the "Darth Vader"
So choices, I wanted choices and got choices but what to choose now. Do I take function over form or form over function? I really need some time to think about it. 🤔
To add some more oil to the fire here are some other samples of design solutions for this problem 😉
Orange tip only
Needle hand and lollipop as counterweight.
P.s. there are some problems uploading images. So the links are all I have.
Thank you for including us in this journey. I love the idea of a lumed second hand, but the diamond shape remind me much too much Tudor. I don’t buy a Horage to have it look like a Tudor. In my case the diamond shaped hands of the Tudor is what I like the less in their design. I also find that the complete second hand in orange is too much. The tip would be enough. In addition, in your new design the power reserve last indicator stays red. Why not make it orange? I would keep the 24h hand without orange, just metallic or black. Finally, with a white dial, the hour, minute and GMT hands would be more legible in black. Like on the Explorer II.
To be honest, whilst I admire the effort with the orange joker, I don’t think this is at all what people had in mind for an orange seconds hand.
I note that the focus seems to have drifted with the Supersede. It was originally a novel integrated steel sports watch, that differentiated itself through a number of factors, including dual time functionality, micro-rotor movement, and some dive watch characteristics to make it more useful. It wasn’t a dive watch. And, for some reason, we are now talking about dive watch DNA? Shouldn’t it be sports watch DNA?
Few of the classic steel sports watches out there feature a lume pip on the seconds hand, or lume at all. However, given the dive type bezel and increased utility, the forum does overall like the idea of lume on the seconds hand. So a pip is acceptable. But it really ought to be something discreet and smaller like the square from the Omnium. In fact, that entire hand looks ideal, and with just an orange tip after the square, would be great on the Supersede.
The joker option of bright orange dive watch style hand, with its Tudor like (despite the use of quadrants by Horage, this is what many will see) large diamond pip is incoherent with the sports watch DNA of the Supersede. Maybe save it for when you come up with a proper dive watch down the line?
Despite being on team orange, if the joker hand is the only option, I’ll be going with the unlumed red. It’s not what I would like but it is more consistent with the integrated steel sports watch DNA.
Let’s remind ourselves, Supersede was not created or promoted as a Dive watch with elegance, but an integrated bracelet sports watch with diverse capabilities!
For my taste the full orange hand totally dominates the dial. My ideal would be to just have the diamond with an orange border & leave the rest silver. Second preference would be an orange tip & my fallback would probably be the red tip. I look forward to the photographs of the final watches which I am sure will improve on the renders.
Pardon the pun do we really want to be caught with a watch red handed?
More seriously, I like red hands on light colored dials but red against black or other dark colors is very hard to see.
How about a poll on red versus orange against black dials and against light dials.
I do like the joker
Can I trouble you for photos of the two second hand options with the colored dials? Than you.
I agree that you should post the joker second hand on one of the other colors. If that just happens to be Atoll Blue, well, so much the better. 😉
agree That the entire hand being orange is too much. Just paint the tip orange would be much better. May also consider turning the lollipop 45 degrees ( I.e. square not diamond) - shows less resemblance to tudor. Or May consider the paddle hand similar to the MM300
Too much orange this way but if just the tip and the lume square then I like it.
I like the orange option. As a member of the Red-Green color blind family the orange is much more detectable and prettier than the red especially so in low light. I also like the lollipop to help the eyes spot the second hand readily given there are so many hands on a GMT already. I love the fact that you receive an audience on your design thinking and I'm thrilled to be a part of this project.
I’m afraid I have to agree that the full orange second hand is just a bit too much. But I appreciate that it is an option for the people that want a lumed seconds hand. I personally will be going for 180 C Red. Like others have said, I prefer to have only one accent color throughout the design. Thanks, and keep up the good work!
The square for the lume doesn't bother me at all, though I think it does look better smaller, as on the Omnium. I do agree with those that think that having the entire second hand orange is too much, and that the orange should be confined to the lume square and the tip. Looking more and more forward to seeing this in the metal!!
First thank you for the transparency and including the community along the journey.
I think the full orange hand makes Supersede cross the line from sport chic to full on outdoor territory, which is a different vibe.
Also the snowflake design is not a good match for the hour markers. If I could suggest, I'd love to see a design with rectangle lume plot and just the orange tip (after the lume plot). Happy to find examples to illustrate.
The Joker is OTT on orange. Keep it simple, subtle and clean. Just add a small round or square lollipop. A small lollipop shouldn’t look too Tudorish or just rotate 45deg.
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I am confused; I was waiting to have more designs cues finalized before committing
(WR, case design, colours). What was making me hold back was the fact that the watch had 2 accent color(red on PR & orange on hands). I think the watch is absolutely amazing in all aspects but the tiny bit of red on the PR clashes with the orange. As for the choice between red or orange hands, I like orange better as long as the PR indicator is also orange, otherwise, I'm fine with all red. One colour for accents, please.
Now for the "joker" orange seconds hands, way too loud in my opinion on a watch that has such a "clean" design. I think going that route is a mistake...
Now for my confusion, I'm not sure I am reading right that If I do go ahead with pre-ordering in August "the design team has decided on one hand option and that is the 021 C orange lollipop seconds hand with luminous insert":So the final verdict is orange with red PR? Just what was making me hold back!
Honestly, I don't like the design of the second hand at all, it seems to me that everything in orange draws a lot of attention, and also just seeing the lumen of the tip automatically came to mind tudor, it is clear that it was already used Before but the one that look at your watch, you will not think that… it is also a unique and different watch in every aspect and I would not put anything that resembles another watch…. the watch is super well done and more with the wonderful platinum update… but I don't like that second hand at all…. It's too flashy and tudor-like and I don't want that...
Please consider only having the lollipop and the tip in orange. The full hand in orange is too much, and the red isn't really doing it for me!
Halfwatch Tuesday1s
The Joker looks a winner, as others have said orange after the lollipop only 🙂
Please can you publish some renders in the various dial colours? I'd like to see what the Boreal Green dial looks like with the two options. Personally, I'd prefer the orange tip and forego luminescence, rather than the red or diamond options.
I do not think the entire seconds hand on the joker should be orange. It’s too garish. Way too loud. Keep the square lume and just paint the tip orange. You know like the original design that sold us on this project. The original design where only the tip of the seconds hand was orange and not the entire thing.
Is it a possibility to not paint the whole thing orange ? How about only the tip area after the square and the square itself ?
Currently the seconds hand is overpowering everything, you won't notice the GMT hand because the seconds will draw your eye too much.
Also shouldn't the square be smaller ? Like on the mentioned Omnium ?
The joker is a great solution. I would still prefer an arrow over the diamond, but for me, this is better than a slim, badly lumed hand which it would be, in any colour.
If you want actual Horage DNA (and not Tudor’s) in the joker seconds hand, the lume square on the seconds hand needs to rotate 90 degrees. This will look like the Horage squares and not a Tudor snowflake hand (est in the 1950s).
As a voter for the orange straight tip seconds hand, I truly do not like the joker options. It bring too much orange to an otherwise clean design. Also it looks like someone copied a Tudor seconds hand and painted it orange. That being said, I don’t particular like the red option either. It is quite unfair to change the design at the stage and make us choose between two options we don’t necessarily want.