What Did You Vote For?
The SUPERSEDE votes keep rolling in and we have been monitoring things very closely.
Today I decided to tabulate the results to provide an update to you all on where things stand.
Watches are very personal items and that means any of us purchasing a watch hope to be able to customize our most desired spec. The reality is that the more spec's on offer the more costly production becomes both in reaching minimums and managing sku's. However, offering more than expected is something we have always loved to do regardless of the additional work or cost involved and since we don't have a crystal ball we reached out to you, our community to vote on what you like most.
As we relayed earlier on we would produce those items that would be most highly voted upon so lets see where things are at and just what will get produced, what is still up in the air and what surprises we have in-store for those taking part in the first SUPERSEDE pre-order round. I will also have some questions at the end of this post that I would love your feedback on in the comments.
Chronometer Certification
Why do it and does anyone really care?
We ask ourselves this quite often because at our facility we regulate our movements within COSC chronometer standards regardless of them going in for certification or not. As a newer movement maker we have noticed that it is easier to convey our accuracy through COSC, but as we grow we have often stopped to wonder if it is still relevant at this time in our company.
It seems the demand for independent certification continues to strengthen and we feel this is a good thing as it forces movement makers to reach industry recognized precision benchmarks. If a movement is precise, one can only assume the components driving that precision have been highly industrialized to continue delivering long term stability.
79% Voted yes and 21% voted no to chronometer certification.
Based on the result we will move forward with the plan to individually certify each and every K2 movement with COSC.
Colour Vote
Dial colours are a hard one to pin down. We all have our favourites and it seems brands could never produce enough variations to meet everyones interest.
With Supersede we set out to create six different dial colours and to have you vote to see which would be the top three that go into production. Honestly we were taken aback by just how the vote went and could not have anticipated the results.
From lowest to highest, here are the results:
11.1% - 24:00 Black
11.1% - Jet Stream
11.3% - Boreal Green
17.8% - Transatlantic Blue
20.1% - 12:00 White
28.6% - Atoll Blue
Bracelet Vote
SUPERSEDE is impeccably finished and it is one of the most complex case and bracelets our production partners have ever worked on, more on just why its so complicated in a future post š.
When we started the project we aimed to keep our life simple and only produce a polished centre link version of the bracelet, however upon speaking with a few insiders we noticed a desire for bracelet centre links to be brushed.
Brushed Centre Links
Polished Centre Links
Industry insiders don't always guess right and neither do we and that is again why we took the "Polished or Brushed Centre Links" to a vote. I had expected things to be close, but difference in the result is quite surprising.
66.5% brushed centre links
33.5% polished centre links
Did you think there would be such a vast difference?
Rubber Strap Vote
For nearly 5 months we have been working on a new rubber strap as it seems fitting that a sports watch be offered with both bracelet and strap options.
Such developments are very costly as we look to engineer new rather than take something off the shelf from an OEM supplier. Therefore we again reached out to you to find out just how important a rubber strap is and if there were any interested in having one if it meant a small upgrade fee. To our surprise it was a landslide vote in favour of shipping with both bracelet and rubber strap.
84.9% Yes 15.1% No
Rotor Vote
Gold Plated Tungsten, 22K Solid Gold or Mystery Material
Voting on rotor material is easy, finding out what is the best material for the movement is the hard part. One of the major engineering challenges with a micro-rotor is finding ways to maximize it's oscillating weight. A high weight is achieved through a materials density and this results in greater rewinding efficiency which means a movement can recharge its power reserve much quicker and easily. A lower oscillating weight and a movement is hampered in its ability to rewind the mainspring.
Ultimately the material should be voted on by weight/density rather than finish, we are after all a performance watchmaker and optimizing our movements is the number 1 job at hand, but we also want things to look and feel good.
The vote was formulated to find out how important material composition is to you. Are precious metals important to you such as solid 22K gold or are gold plated, non-precious tungsten fine as well?
53.1% 22K Gold
20.9% Gold Plated Tungsten
From an engineering perspective tungsten has a slight weight advantage over solid gold and therefore it is from a performance perspective the better choice, but then again, there is something special about solid gold. The look of gold is fitting to the black gold bridges of the K2 movement and therefore having a solid slice of this precious metal oscillating on your wrist would be the icing on the cake, or would it.
Let's not forget the 28% vote for the "Mystery Material"...
There could just be another metal out there that meets the aesthetic requirements of K2, exceeds the density of both tungsten and solid gold and is one of the most coveted materials in watchmaking.
Whats Next?
It's time for you to give me a little more feedback.
1. Do you think we should try to offer all dial colours if it means they are limited to a pre-order round or in quantity?
2. Should we offer both brushed and polished bracelets?
3. Would you purchase a second bracelet in a different finish if given the option?
4. Should we offer additional rubber strap colours and if so would you grab a few colours?
5. Should we explore this mystery material in more detail?
The SUPERSEDE pre-order is planned to kickoff later on in November and the next forum post will focus on the format and preparation for pre-order.
Until next time...
Landon Stirling
Since you guys at Horage always seem busy with new stuff... @landonstirling for some time I have this crazy watch idea: https://omegaforums.net/threads/the-pomodoro-watch-a-new-complication.141127/ If there would be one watchmaker crazy enough to make this kind of complication I would think it would be Horage ;-)
oooer this is exciting and I see the countdown has begun! You asked for a little more feedbackā¦ Sorry I was a bit slow on the uptake. #1 [offering all dial colours] if your in-time flexible assembly allows then Iām sure offering a few more colours will clinch a few more sales, but honestly youāve picked some great colours. #2 [brushed and/or polished bracelet] my personal preference was brushed and this will be a very personal choice for many, so if you can offer both you definitely should. #3 [would I buy a second bracelet] no, wouldnāt see the point given #2 above. #4 [other strap colours] definitely and this will likely influence my final pick of dial colour. Like others, I love the sporty and showy orange colour. Please pick a quality rubber and the quick release pins on both bracelet and strap will be essential. No butterfly clasp: that would put me off as fiddly, but if you can adapt your leaf clasp for the rubber strap that would be amazing (but will need to be a chunkier design) #5 [rotor material] performance matters most here; if your mystery material is weighty, as heavy as tungsten and can also be gold plated then do consider (unless looks of this mystery material beats gold?); Iām not sure why anyone would want solid gold over gold plated tungsten: looks will be the same but with reduced performance?
1. Do you think we should try to offer all dial colours if it means they are limited to a pre-order round or in quantity?
Would be good for choices at pre-order round and limit choices to pre-order only. not by quantity. Disappoints some folks who are gunning for say Atoll Blue.
2. Should we offer both brushed and polished bracelets?
Nice to have at pre-order for polished centre bracelet folks. Personally still brushed all the way. :)
3. Would you purchase a second bracelet in a different finish if given the option?
Nope. Just one. Likely wearing the rubber.
4. Should we offer additional rubber strap colours and if so would you grab a few colours?
Absolutely! Package Matching or appropriate coloured rubber straps for the respective dial colours and bundle deal for additional rubber strap purchases.
5. Should we explore this mystery material in more detail?
Depending on time and resources and costs involved.
If it bumps the costs of the watch up a lot, may end up decorative though functional. If mystery material bumps the costs, the value proposition for that bump should be rather strong. I personally don't mind a solid piece of gold inside my watch. š
@nathaniel.walker 1 correct 2 are not,š the colours our designer original choosing were: Jet stream grey (cool light grey, twrist of just white), Atoll blue (a blue of sunny ocean), and Boreal green (a very dark green close to black ) We think green may stay longer? but need to find a green will not get bore quickly like current āgreen in trendā, as we started AutarkG2 in 2018, were almost sure green will be important in watch dial the next. Now is proved š Of course all choices depends also which target customers we are design for of supersede?
1. Do you think we should try to offer all dial colours if it means they are limited to a pre-order round or in quantity?
The colour I have in mind is Tiffany Blue which isnāt your original 6 choices. I am looking for a more sunny feel. The original 6 colours are more serious and (dare I say) common. I think it is a good idea to have all colours available if itās logistically reasonable. Otherwise they can come in separate releases in the future.
2. Should we offer both brushed and polished bracelets?
Regarding bracelets, I donāt think it is necessary to have 2nd option of polished centre links. I donāt think any brands do that at the moment either?
3. Would you purchase a second bracelet in a different finish if given the option?
No. To me, polished centre links are incoherent, period.
4. Should we offer additional rubber strap colours and if so would you grab a few colours?
Rubber straps can be colour-matched to dial colours but I think for the most part, black will be good. I am thinking actually having a bracelet/rubber/leather combo like the VC Overseas. I think buyers of this kind of watch wonāt really play too much with rubber colours and stick to the bracelet.
5. Should we explore this mystery material in more detail?
Not sure what other exotic metals thatās dense enough to be suitable but I actually prefer tungsten for the industrial no-nonsense vibe and better winding efficiency. But since most chose gold, I think it is a fine choice too. Donāt waste time pondering over it.
Overall, I see this watch as a functional GADA (Go Anywhere, Do Anything) piece than a dress piece. Too much polish is bad. Too much lume on the other hand could be great. Tactile feel of the bezel is important, as is the winding feel using the crown. Tungsten rotor is good to keep costs down.
1. Do you think we should try to offer all dial colours if it means they are limited to a pre-order round or in quantity?
All of the dial colors would be nice, but could also limit them to 4: white or gray for a light color, black, one of the blues, and the green.
2. No, brushed only is fine.
3. No, single bracelet only.
4. I doubt it, but maybe. It depends on the dial color.
5. Hard to say without more information, but I like the gold option.
1)Don't think it is necessary to offer all dial colors. I voted for the grey dial knowing I'd be fine with white. Didn't vote for Atoll blue only because of purchasing two blue dial(fume and aventurine) watches this year even though neither looks like yours.
2&3)Offering both bracelets seems a bit much and it would be hard to justify the price of getting the one that wasn't selected through voting. I voted for the polished links because of the steel you were using and thought the results would at least be close. I've had two 316 steel bracelet watches for years and the small scratches do not bother me; just shows I enjoyed wearing them.
4)Definitely no to other strap colors because of all the shades possible and you can't please everyone. How many people will spend extra money on something they may not like? Did vote for the black included with an upcharge.
5)Really like the contrast of the gold rotor against black, but anything that looks good and functions properly is all anyone could ask for.
I became interested in this watch after reading the article on Monochrome and especially the comments made by Mr. Felsl. Right now I'm 70% sure I will purchase it next month. While none of the above are deal breakers for me, I just hate buying a watch without seeing it in person. At the end of the day, I have to trust what you decide looks best because you have seen and handled it. They say a picture is worth a thousand words, but that came about long before we all had screens that may show the pic differently. Also, if I don't like the way it looks on the wrist, it will rarely be worn. Thanks for everything and keep up the exciting work.
I am assuming that the voting is more for entertainment value and to inspire interest in the product (which it has). We as consumers canāt predict what global purchasing trends will be in 2023. I donāt want Horage to lose money just because we recommended a dial color that proves to be unpopular two years from now. For example, I voted for āAtoll Blueā as my favorite dial color because it is beautiful, but I will likely not buy a watch in that color because it is not as practical as either white or black.
You could consider allowing āVIP Birdsā to select from among all six dial colors, and then removing one color from each preorder level until only the final three dial colors remain.
I respectfully but strongly disagree with my fellows who prefer brushed center links. One major benefit of 904L steel is that it takes and keeps a polish better. Brushing the metal hides the beauty of the material choice. I understand the argument that a brushed finish will hide scratches better, but if one is truly worried about damaging a bracelet then one wears a G-shock or puts on the rubber strap. I would purchase a bracelet with polished center links separately if given the choice.
I am satisfied with the black rubber strap option. I would likely not purchase additional colors if offered.
Given the price difference between tungsten and gold, and assuming that they truly will perform equally well, and given the fact that we will spend a lot less time looking at the rotor than at the dial or bracelet, save money on the rotors and use the savings to offer a fourth dial color or a choice between brushed or polished links. Explore the mystery metal only if it offers significant cost savings or some novelty value.
Thanks Landon the run up to pre-orders is looking great. Will the bezel be 60 click or 120 click?
1. Do you think we should try to offer all dial colours if it means they are limited to a pre-order round or in quantity?
I don't think you should commit to making all of them at the start, at least not at the expense of people missing out on the more popular colours. I voted for black, but would rather choose another than see less production.
BUT, it would be great to have a textured dial, like on the Autark watches.
2. Should we offer both brushed and polished bracelets?
While the polish look is nice, the practical use is terrible. Nobody likes the scratches. Just offer the brushed.
3. Would you purchase a second bracelet in a different finish if given the option?
Definitly not.
4. Should we offer additional rubber strap colours and if so would you grab a few colours?
YES! In black, blue, orange and white. But importantly, with a micro-adjustable clasp.
5. Should we explore this mystery material in more detail?
I don't see the point. I'd rather see the time and effort going towards perfecting the micro adjustment on the clasp. Something like the clasp Formex has would be great.
On a final point, I would like to see a little more differentiation between the GMT hand and the hour hand. It still needs to be smaller, to be covered up when not in use, but, maybe make the tip different (smaller), or change the finishing on the metal? Anything to make it stand out a little.
Best of luck to the team, and I look forward to pre-orders starting soon.
Azad
You are almost there. If it were up to me, I would
A. Go with some type of scratch-resistant titanium versus steel. I know it costs more and is harder to work with but to me steel is quite an old technology and who doesn't want a lighter watch? I travel quite a bit and even a modest-sized watch on a leather strap becomes tiresome after a 20 hour day.
B. Contrasting color for the watch bezel. The all-steel (or titanium) approach makes for a visually dull watch for me.
As for the questions:
1. Do you think we should try to offer all dial colours if it means they are limited to a pre-order round or in quantity? Yes, but that doesn't mean you have to offer all at once. Start with the top-ranked ones so you are not left with unsold stock.
2. Should we offer both brushed and polished bracelets? Stick with the mix and leave it at that.
3. Would you purchase a second bracelet in a different finish if given the option?No.
4. Should we offer additional rubber strap colours and if so would you grab a few colours? Yes - and include quick and secure change option between bracelet and strap
5. Should we explore this mystery material in more detail? Always!
I feel this is fantastic sports watch A full choose of dial colours would be great Would love an additional rubber strap as long as the strap follows the shape of the case at the lugs choice of colours would also be great. Iām the odd one I like the polished centre links but would be happy with the brushed finish Difficult to comment on mystery material without knowing what it would be If a precious metal then I would say take it forward with another creation you seem very good at this maybe a sports dress watch
1. Do you think we should try to offer all dial colours if it means they are limited to a pre-order round or in quantity?
Depends. Yes, if limited to a preorder round. Maybe, if limited in quantity. I would worry if the potential lost sales from those who are unable to obtain the color they wish will be offset by sales of the less popular colors. Might just go with the original plan of using the top 3 votes.
2. Should we offer both brushed and polished bracelets?
Yes, if no significant additional cost for either.
3. Would you purchase a second bracelet in a different finish if given the option?
No
4. Should we offer additional rubber strap colours and if so would you grab a few colours?
Offer additional colors - Yes, if no signifiant increase in costs.
I would not purchase multiple rubber straps.
5. Should we explore this mystery material in more detail? .
Yes
Would be great to have the choose of all the dual colours and a choose of coloured rubber straps. I do like the rubber strap to follow the counters of the case at the lugs and would have both the stainless and rubber. Iām the odd one out would rather polished centre links but would be happy with the brush finish. I think this is a truly fantastic sports watch. Precious metals should maybe look at moving forward on your next creation a sports dress Iām sure you would make it very special
1. Do you think we should try to offer all dial colours if it means they are limited to a pre-order round or in quantity?
Depends I'm fine with the top 2 colors but maybe keeping the other colors to reward the pr-order folks? I assume it's more expensive to produce multiple color dials. If it's not go for it!
2. Should we offer both brushed and polished bracelets?
If it's not more costly yes if it is, just stick to the brushed bracelet
3. Would you purchase a second bracelet in a different finish if given the option?
No
4. Should we offer additional rubber strap colours and if so would you grab a few colours?
Yes you should offer a variety of rubber strap colors I would definitely get an orange rubber strap.
5. Should we explore this mystery material in more detail?
I don't think so I can't see myself interested in another material for this watch. If there is demand I would assume you'd go for it.
Thank you for sharing voting results (even if not final ones yet)! Each update is more exciting!;-)
Here are my thoughts on your questions:
1. Do you think we should try to offer all dial colours if it means they are limited to a pre-order round or in quantity?
I think it would be nice for the pre-order, provided that the cost of producing perhaps only a few dials of different colour isn't too high.
2. Should we offer both brushed and polished bracelets?
No. One variant is perfectly fine.
3. Would you purchase a second bracelet in a different finish if given the option?
No.
4. Should we offer additional rubber strap colours and if so would you grab a few colours?
Several colours make sense to match different dial colours, but I wouldn't go for more than one strap (i.e. bracelet + 1x rubber strap to suit dial colour is ok)
5. Should we explore this mystery material in more detail?
Yes, but only if you think it will bring any special benefit and increase attractiveness of the watch (without a significant price increase - solid gold as an option may be great for many, but not attractive to me). Overall, gold plated tungsten is perfectly fine to me as it is functional and plating adds the extra visual impact.
My top three are the same as in the vote. However additional dial colours for those who are pre-ordering, or limited especially since I think there is no such thing as a quantity of one in production for a dial which is an extra piece. :-). In all likelihood Horage would have had to make production samples of all the colours to really understand the look. Why not offer the same as a limited offering, keeping sufficient quantity back for replacement in future (anything that gets out of the door also needs to have spares accounted for....).
No, especially since the crown/case also needs to match the bracelet. For those very particular offer it as a custom!
Not on pre-order.
Additional colours makes sense if it is nicely contrasted with the production dial colours. Horage should recommend this combination as matching colours on a monitor screen is not the most accurate.
Certainly. However for such a critical piece of the movement, Horage should decide what material - gold, platinum, titanium, tungsten, glass, sapphire - to use based on all the parameters only you know best!
1. Do you think we should try to offer all dial colours if it means they are limited to a pre-order round or in quantity? Sure, why not? Maybe offer the most popular/standard colors in each round, then restrict special colors to certain rounds based on voting. It might be a good idea to set the schedule for these special colors in advance so we can plan our purchase.
2. Should we offer both brushed and polished bracelets? No, and honestly I wish it wasn't put to a vote. Just pick the style you feel is best executed (you're the only ones who have actually seen it in the metal). If Horage wants to really differentiate themselves from other manufacturers, maybe commit to stocking the alternate style in the future as a standalone item?
3. Would you purchase a second bracelet in a different finish if given the option? Not as part of the preorder. I haven't actually worn the watch yet! Maybe I'll end up liking the default, or maybe I won't end up keeping the watch making the extra purchase a waste.
4. Should we offer additional rubber strap colours and if so would you grab a few colours? Based on the vote you should throw in a black strap. But Horage should stock a bunch of different colors so long as this watch is being sold and offer them as standalone purchases. Again, this would further differentiate Horage from the pack in a very good way. It's doubly important when the strap is integrated since I can't just swap out for standard 3rd party option when I feel like jazzing things up in the future.
5. Should we explore this mystery material in more detail? It sounds like you're talking about platinum, in which case, yes. As nice as gold is, Pt would be a better fit theme-wise with the rest of the watch. Both color-wise, and being under the radar.
yes
strongly prefer brushed
no
yes
Sure but do not hold strong opinion here. I will try to buy it regardless :)
1. Do you think we should try to offer all dial colours if it means they are limited to a pre-order round or in quantity? Yes
2. Should we offer both brushed and polished bracelets? No
3. Would you purchase a second bracelet in a different finish if given the option? No
4. Should we offer additional rubber strap colours and if so would you grab a few colours? Yes. Orange and a strap color which compliments the dial; black is the least interesting. Not interested in a deployant buckle on a rubber strap; I want the additional security of a pin buckle.
5. Should we explore this mystery material in more detail? Yes. The platinum suggestion is interesting as it offers greater density at a lower cost than gold. Not interested plated gold.