The refinement pursuit continues and this time its all hands on deck, or all hands on dial in the case of Supersede. For those of you that are a part of our Inside Watch Tok group on Facebook you might have noticed a post from Tzuyu earlier in the week showing an updated Supersede. We are trying a change to the hands per se on Supersede, but we need your input. Let's dig into the details.
Supersede with the 180 C hand colour.
Supersede with the 021 C hand colour
A side by side comparison of the original 021 c & the new 180 c.
Why The Discussion?
The challenge we have had previously with the hands was that the luminous on the both the seconds and the day/night indicator hand was not creating the intended result. Luminous when applied has a powdery inconsistent texture and on smaller surfaces this can become predominant. In the case of Supersede this powdery look was not smooth and consistent which meant the colour we were trying to achieve looked patchy, washed out and lacked depth. The result were two hands (day/night indicator & seconds hand) that didn't match the overall aesthetic and finish quality of the watch. Some results were better than others, but you can see by the image below it simply wasn't living up to a premium look.
An early prototype showing the inconsistency in the hands that could occur.
At first we looked at darkening the undercoat of the luminous however this still created a lack for a better word, "messy" application on the hands. Secondly we looked at improving the colour of the luminous itself, but that didn't improve the finish we were getting and it still had a faded appearance.
The image below tells the story. It was sending a clear message that we should seriously consider our approach to luminous. Quite a pivotal moment as we could clearly see the luminous on the day/night indicator was not resulting in anything legible as well the seconds hand still appeared blotchy and inconsistent. We considered more indication on the day/night indicator wheel, but this was also not an option due to the size of each indicator and also the same unfinished look being achieved on the hand.
All the other luminous applications were looking great such as on the local hands where you need to read the time in your current time zone. In a real world scenario the GMT related hands come secondary to the local hour/minute hands and the second hand would be a third consideration.
Removing the luminous on the seconds and day/night indicator hand cleans up the dial. Overall it becomes more legible in the dark as the focus is on the local and minute hands. Taking this into account Tzuyu discussed this with our designers and the decision was made to try a full varnish coat on both the seconds hand and day/night indicator to achieve a super clean hand finish.
What Is The Result?
We looked further to questions and suggestions about the watch. A question we had coming up was creating consistency between the power reserve indicator and the colour of the hands. The power reserve indicator had a bright red empty indication and the second hand and day/nigh indicator were in orange, but appeared more like a faded yellow. While prototyping we landed on this beautiful orangish/red Pantone 180 C colour that created consistency and balance across the dial and is a colour we felt matched with the dial colours much more strongly than the previous inconsistent luminous result. The icing on the cake was how this colour matched up with all dials and the FKM rubber strap colours on offer, especially the red. We decided to give it a go and the result is quite stunning.
However we also knew that we should present Supersede with what was originally intended to be the orange 021 C that you are all familiar with. It’s a very vibrant orange and it has been extremely difficult to get anywhere close to it with luminous.
12:00 White with 180 C (Red)
12:00 White with 021 C (Orange)
12:00 White with 180 C (Red)
12:00 White with 180 C (Red)
12:00 White with 021 C (Orange)
12:00 White with 021 C (Orange)
Boreal Green with 180 C (Red)
Boreal Green with 021 C (Orange)
Transatlantic Blue with 180 C (Red)
Transatlantic Blue with 180 C (Red)
Transatlantic Blue with 021 C (Orange)
24:00 Black with 180 C (Red)
24:00 Black with 021 C (Orange)
We need your vote!
With hands we must reach a certain quantity and we must decide on either Pantone 180 C (red) or Pantone 021C (orange). We unfortunately cannot reach the quality we hoped for with the luminous hands so the result will be a solid colour of the most voted upon. We have included a number of photos for you to see how the hands look and you can vote below for your favourite.
Vote For Supersede Hands
0%021 c (Orange)
0%180 c (Red)
Click on either 021 C or 180 C to cast your vote!
Supersede has been a living project and as we near closer to our production deadline the final elements are coming to fruition. The team here at Horage has worked day and night on K2 and Supersede and appreciate you having faith in this exciting project. The goal has always been to deliver the best possible result both in performance and in finish.
Like always your feedback is an absolute must for us, so vote now and connect with us in the comments.
What’s Next?
Keep an eye out for the rotor update coming this Saturday July 16th and join Andi and myself on Sunday July 17th at 20:00 CET on YouTube live to see the latest.
Till next time...
Landon Stirling
I prefer the consistent red to the patchy orange but agree with the comments that a consistent orange (if it can be achieved) is more fun. The highly visible white (a la Sinn) option, however, looks great.
If it isn’t too late, however, I would also add a request that the second timezone hand should be more differentiated than just being a skeleton hand, especially on the clean white dial. My preference would be the Rolex GMT-master arrow (with just the arrow itself luminous, so it ‘floats’ at night). I personally believe it is quite important that the actual time for where you are currently located is important to be luminous as, when your internal clock is out of sync, that is when you are likely to wake up in the middle of the night and want to know the time.
Thank you everyone for all the comments, suggestions, concerns and various votes of approval from both sides. Tomorrow (Sunday) we will provide an update on the hands based on your feedback. I think the team has come up with some clever ideas and I am currently working on piecing this together to present to you tomorrow. Be sure to check out the latest rotor post and see what material choice we have come up with. https://www.shop.horage.com/forum/k2-english/micro-rotor-material-surprise
Hi, with the now more vibrant colors on the hands, I get the impression that there might be a little bit too many color spots present on the dial. Any of both colors would work well for power reserve indicator and tip of the second hand (same color for both!). A polished steel hand for day/night indicator instead of a painted one would imho look way more elegant and not as “loud“.
With only two color accents on the dial, I would have a slight preference towards red (only because I ordered the red rubber strap. Nevertheless I would have preferred a „proper“ orange strap). With three colors spots on the dial, red could be a little bit more overwhelming than orange.
I had a bad feeling this wasn’t going to end well when red surfaced as one of the rubber strap colours instead of a glorious burnt orange (no hard feelings!)
Oh dear! I do hope MOQ allows both orange and red to remain in play.
I was going for Atoll blue and orange just works, only works.
Why not drop red in the power reserve indicator: it isn’t needed, the wedge dial works without need for colour. Remove the problem!
And why not add a lollipop lume disc to the seconds hand? We can live without lume on the day-night but a real shame to miss lume on the seconds hand.
There are a number of thing to love this project. First there is the getting there together experience with all updates and voting.
Second there is the technical challenge to deliver a less then 10mm super flat micro rotor watch with a 200m waterproof case.
And last but far from least the watch itself. A take anywhere watch that is a functional combination of both a GMT travel watch and a dive watch.
The diver DNA requires a lume seconds hand to check if the watch is indeed running in low light situation. I understand the complexity when looking at the pictures and there are not many watches out there with a needle hand with lumen on it. There are however some who have succeeded.
Sinn has a number of them. Also Stowa seem to be able to have lumen seconds hands. Both of them German. Perhaps Andreas can make a call home?
Perhaps just white Lume is of a finer grain and easier to apply. Maybe Tritec can help. Otherwise I think that the Sinn EZM 9 https://www.sinn.de/en/Modell/EZM_9_TESTAF.htm has a nice solution to adding colour to the hands
I truly believe that a lumen seconds hand is an essential part of the watch so please keep on trying.
The 24 hours had is less of a problem. A silver/steel colour or a non lume paint would be fine.
I went with the Attol blue, which I think will look terrible with red. So I have to vote orange. If the colour is changed, I'd want to change my dial selection.
Hi all. I'm adding my voice to the gallant, evidently losing orange side. Was planning a white / orange purchase. With respect, the red looks a little basic.
Two colours separate the different functions of power res and 24h indicator. That is the legibility aspect.
While a singular colour gives a more uniform look, I don't think red works with every dial... It's OK with white, black and transatlantic blue, but for me, it doesn't work with attol and borealis green.
On a white dial the orange is a must. White dial with orange details is one of the details why I ordered the watch.
Orange is still my favourite. To make it consistent throughout the dial I would also make the power reserve indicator the same color (orange).
If there is no lume on the seconds hand or 24 hr hand, don’t really see a purpose for either color; just go with silver and save the cost. And the red looks better with some dials, and the orange better with others. Since the minute and hour hand are silver it keeps the same look, and would look a bit more classic than either color since the color no longer has real function and is just esthetic.
I came in thinking I'd be getting orange accents but democracy means I might be getting red.
sigh.
I prefer red, it has more contrast…. and it also does the main thing, which is that the second hand looks much better at night in low light situations... and I will always choose the efficiency option over the aesthetic one
The red looks great
BUT
The Orange makes me SMILE.
The colour needs to be consistent across all hand/indicators.
as I’ve ordered 2, can I vote Orange twice?
Tough call but leaning orange.
And just to clarify- no lum on indicator and second hand regardless of color? Is that correct?
I agree. Either use all red or all orange (power reserve, 24 hr hand, second hand).
One not minor comment: I think the color on the power reserve should match the one on the hands to minimize the number of shades on the face of the watch.
For me, I would go orange as the primary accent colour on all relevant hands and the dial. Red is really overused at this point in the watch world (at least from my experience).
However, I feel it’s very important for the second hand to have some sort of lume. You’ve gone to the effort of incorporating a dive bezel and stretching for dive watch water resistance; whilst I realise you’re not attempting to obtain unnecessary (in my view) ISO6425 certification, not having lume on the second hand renders some of these features less relevant, if not a little pointless.
Thus, I think you should seriously consider incorporating some sort of dot or triangle or other shape on the second hand to give a larger lume surface area.
Horage rhymes with Orange (when spoken in French). Need I say more? 😁